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camner
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Re: Using 1 Mac as "master"
Reply #14 - May 2nd, 2018 at 4:33am
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Following your suggested procedure(s) worked perfectly.  Bookmarks on all browsers on all devices appear to be in sync.

Thanks so much for your help and for walking me through this.
  
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Jerry Krinock
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Re: Using 1 Mac as "master"
Reply #13 - May 1st, 2018 at 5:29am
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Oh, I think I see the misunderstanding.  The + number is the number of items added to Firefox by the export.  If Firefox already has some of the items in Synkmark, as I purport, then these items will not need to be exported.  So that added number will be less.  Smiley
  

Jerry Krinock
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camner
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Re: Using 1 Mac as "master"
Reply #12 - May 1st, 2018 at 5:22am
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Thanks very much for your testing and for your response. I did delete the places.sqlite database in order to resolve the issue with a corrupt bookmark that wouldn't delete, so upon restarting Firefox a new places.sqlite was generated.

I guess what I don't understand, and I'm not sure I need to, is why the Firefox export count would be LESS than the number in the .bmco document.  If I'm exporting from the .bmco document, I would think the # exported would have to be the same to all the three browsers, and if Firefox had some additional bookmarks from the recreation of places.sqlite, the overall # of Firefox bookmarks would be greater, not less, than the # exported from the .bmco database.

But, I don't need to understand completely.  I will give your proposed path a whirl tomorrow morning and see how things go and will write again with the results.

Thanks again for your help!
  
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Jerry Krinock
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Re: Using 1 Mac as "master"
Reply #11 - May 1st, 2018 at 2:27am
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Jerry Krinock wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 2:15am:
OK, I've now done the testing with your Synkmark .bmco document.  The summary is that it "works for me".  I deleted all bookmarks from Firefox, Chrome and Safari, then did a Export to All from Synkmark.  The summaries were:

Firefox: +1174 Δ2 ↖0 ↕0 -0
Safari:  +1173 Δ2 ↖0 ↕0 -0
Chrome:  +1173 Δ2 ↖0 ↕0 -0


So Firefox got one more.  After doing some Write to Desktop in the Sync Logs to the some processing with BBEdit, I found that this one more was a bookmark named Recent Tags, which is in fact not a regular bookmark but one of those so-called Smart Search bookmarks.  This is one of those types which is not supported by and therefore not exported to Safari or Chrome.  So, 1173 + 1 = 1174, Perfect!

This was done with Firefox quit, so our quick direct method was used.  I then repeated the experiment with Firefox running, to test our coordinated sync, and got the same numbers.

Here is why maybe you got a smaller number of additions to Firefox.  In addition to places.sqlite, Firefox archives past versions of your bookmarks in a folder named bookmarkbackups, which is also in your profile folder.  When Firefox launches and discovers that places.sqlite is missing, Firefox will re-create a places.sqlite and populate it with bookmarks from one of the files in bookmarkbackups.  Maybe you launched Firefox and that happened while you were not looking.  It does not give any warning.

If you really want to start from zero with Firefox, you need to delete that  bookmarkbackups folder in addition to places.sqlite.  But then, as "Plan C", Firefox creates a new places.sqlite file that contains 5 or so default bookmarks, Welcome to Firefox, etc.  So you need to delete those manually. 

A quicker method is to delete places.sqlite but do not launch Firefox.  Export from Synkmark first.  Synkmark has in its back pocket (Synkmark.app/Contents/Resources/EmptyExtores/ExtoreFirefox) an empty places.sqlite file to handle the edge case of a missing places.sqlite file.

Oh, one more thing.  I've noticed that the last two versions of Firefox apparently no longer vacuum the places database when Firefox quits, which means that it in addition to places.sqlite you will usually also see two related files, places.sqlite-shm and places.sqlite-wal.  To guarantee the expected result, you should delete all three files.

So, you can repeat that test if you want – it was an interesting idea.  But this time check that Firefox bookmarks are really empty before exporting.  Check all three hard folders in Firefox' Library window which appears when you click in its menu >Bookmarks > Show all Bookmarks.  But I think you're probably OK to start syncing again.
  

Jerry Krinock
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Jerry Krinock
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Re: Using 1 Mac as "master"
Reply #10 - May 1st, 2018 at 2:15am
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OK, I've now done the testing with your Synkmark .bmco document.  The summary is that it "works for me".  I deleted all bookmarks from Firefox, Chrome and Safari, then did a Export to All from Synkmark.  The summaries were:

Firefox: +1174 Δ2 ↖0 ↕0 -0
Safari:  +1173 Δ2 ↖0 ↕0 -0
Chrome:  +1173 Δ2 ↖0 ↕0 -0


So Firefox got one more.  After doing some Write to Desktop in the Sync Logs to the some processing with BBEdit, I found that this one more was a bookmark named Recent Tags, which is in fact not a regular bookmark but one of those so-called Smart Search bookmarks.  This is one of those types which is not supported by and therefore not exported to Safari or Chrome.  So, 1173 + 1 = 1174, Perfect!

This was done with Firefox quit, so our quick direct method was used.  I then repeated the experiment with Firefox running, to test our coordinated sync, and got the same numbers.

Here is why maybe you got a smaller number of additions to Firefox.  In addition to places.sqlite, Firefox archives past versions of your bookmarks in a folder named bookmarkbackups, which is also in your profile folder.  When Firefox launches and discovers that places.sqlite is missing, Firefox will re-create a places.sqlite and populate it with bookmarks from one of the files in bookmarkbackups.  Maybe you launched Firefox and that happened while you were not looking.  It does not give any warning.

If you really want to start from zero with Firefox, you need to delete that  bookmarkbackups folder in addition to places.sqlite.  But then, as "Plan C", Firefox creates a new places.sqlite file that contains 5 or so default bookmarks, Welcome to Firefox, etc.  So you need to delete those manually. 

A quicker method is to delete places.sqlite but do not launch Firefox.  Export from Synkmark first.  Synkmark has in its back pocket (Synkmark.app/Contents/Resources/EmptyExtores/ExtoreFirefox) an empty places.sqlite file to handle the edge case of a missing places.sqlite file.

So, you can repeat that test if you want – it was an interesting idea.  But this time check that Firefox bookmarks are really empty before exporting.  Check all three hard folders in Firefox' Library window which appears when you click in its menu >Bookmarks > Show all Bookmarks.  But I think you're probably OK to start syncing again.
  

Jerry Krinock
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Re: Using 1 Mac as "master"
Reply #9 - Apr 30th, 2018 at 12:33am
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Yes, those numbers are a little strange.  Firefox supports some special bookmark types (smart searches, RSS feeds, etc.) which are not supported by the others, but that makes the Firefox number higher.  I'll be back after I've tried it with your bookmarks.
  

Jerry Krinock
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camner
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Re: Using 1 Mac as "master"
Reply #8 - Apr 30th, 2018 at 12:17am
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OK, I just did a test run for my export, and Synkmark reported that it would export 1173 bookmarks to Safari and Chrome, but that in would only export 1106 bookmarks to Firefox.

This seems odd...if the Synkmark bookmark file is being used as the master, shouldn't the number of bookmarks pushed out to the three browsers be the same?
  
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camner
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Re: Using 1 Mac as "master"
Reply #7 - Apr 30th, 2018 at 12:11am
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Jerry Krinock wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 10:44pm:
I shall look at your Firefox bookmarks data and see what I can understand from that error message.  I shall be back later or tomorrow.

Thanks, but don't do it yet.  When I went to delete bookmarks on my iMac I found a single bookmark in Firefox that would not delete come hell or high water.  Looking up how to troubleshoot that I found that I could delete the places.sqlite database in my Firefox profile, and then upon restarting Firefox, the bookmark database was recreated (thus restoring all the bookmarks I had just deleted...grrr...).  BUT, this time I could delete the offending bookmark.

So, I'm off to take your original suggestion, and I'll let you know how it goes once I'm done.
  
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Jerry Krinock
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Re: Using 1 Mac as "master"
Reply #6 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 10:44pm
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I shall look at your Firefox bookmarks data and see what I can understand from that error message.  I shall be back later or tomorrow.
  

Jerry Krinock
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Re: Using 1 Mac as "master"
Reply #5 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 9:56pm
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camner wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 9:28pm:
Who would imagine that something as apparently simple as syncing should be so damnably difficult?
Oh, probably anyone who has ever done syncing, as you can see from searching the web for the phrase syncing is hard.  And without those unique identifiers I discussed, syncing is very hard.

camner wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 9:28pm:
You want me to delete all the bookmarks in my browsers (I presume you want that done for Firefox as well, yes?)  Though perhaps you are suggesting in the other reply that I should handle the Firefox issue separately on the iMac, and let those deletions propagate to the other devices via iCloud and Chrome sync.  Do I understand this correctly?
I wrote that before I read your Firefox issue, thinking that your Firefox did not have any unwanted bookmarks.  But since my suggested fix for Firefox also involves deleting bookmarks anyhow, yes, you should clean out all three at once.
  

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camner
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Re: Using 1 Mac as "master"
Reply #4 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 9:36pm
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Jerry Krinock wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 8:50pm:
Ooooh, that was long and I didn't even answer your questions.

1.  You can see the changes in any import or export by clicking the tab: Reports >Sync Log.

For an import, you cannot see proposed changes.  But you can run Synkmark, click in the menu: File > Import, tell it to import in spite of the Safe Limit warning, and then immediately click in the menu Edit > Undo Import.  The record will remain in the Sync Log, so you can see what would have happened had you not undone it.

For an export, click the File > Export.  The Safe Limit warning sheet gives you an option to do a Test Run.  Click the Test Run button and no changes will be exported by a similar Sync Log will be created for you.

2.  With Synkmark on only one Mac, and Xmarks shutting down, and no Windows computers involved, you cannot have a Sync Loop.

3.  Regarding Firefox Sync, it works for me.  But unfortunately none of these services have a web interface so it's difficult to tell which Mac's Firefox is not working.  Are you sure that you have only one Firefox Sync account, same one signed in on both Macs?  In both Mac's Firefox' Preferences > Sync, ensure that the Bookmarks checkbox is switched on.  If all that is OK, I would…

• Pause syncing in Synkmark.
• In Firefox on both Macs, delete all bookmarks.
• Sign out of Firefox Sync on both Macs.
• Wait a half hour.
• Resume Syncing and Export in Synkmark – this should repopulate bookmarks into Firefox on your iMac
• Sign in to Firefox Sync on your iMac.
• Wait at least 5 minutes.
• Sign in to Firefox Sync on your MacBook.
• Hope that bookmarks appear in Firefox on your MacBook.


I have dug more into the Firefox sync issue, and discovered through research that one can access the Firefox sync log.  Sure enough, the Firefox sync log on the iMac reports over 200 errors.  I was going to attach the log, in case it's meaningful to you in any way...I'm afraid it doesn't mean much to me, but unless I'm missing something you have file attachments turned off.

I have hundreds of lines in the sync log that look like this:

1525031748938      Sync.Engine.Bookmarks.BookmarkSyncUtils      ERROR      addRowToChangeRecords: Invalid modified date for wxgrGoCTvel3: 0

Thanks again for your help.
  
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camner
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Re: Using 1 Mac as "master"
Reply #3 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 9:28pm
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Thanks for your extensive reply...I really appreciate the fact that you take the time to explain the why rather than just say "do this..."

I guess my reaction is Who would imagine that something as apparently simple as syncing should be so damnably difficult? I'm pretty savvy tech wise, but find this more difficult that I would have thought.

Before proceeding with your fix, I'd like to verify one important thing...the steps you outlined (following your phrase "So, to fix it is simple" are to be done on my iMac, that is the "master" device.  You want me to delete all the bookmarks in my browsers (I presume you want that done for Firefox as well, yes?) Though perhaps you are suggesting in the other reply that I should handle the Firefox issue separately on the iMac, and let those deletions propagate to the other devices via iCloud and Chrome sync.  Do I understand this correctly?
  
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Jerry Krinock
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Re: Using 1 Mac as "master"
Reply #2 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 8:50pm
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Ooooh, that was long and I didn't even answer your questions.

1.  You can see the changes in any import or export by clicking the tab: Reports >Sync Log.

For an import, you cannot see proposed changes.  But you can run Synkmark, click in the menu: File > Import, tell it to import in spite of the Safe Limit warning, and then immediately click in the menu Edit > Undo Import.  The record will remain in the Sync Log, so you can see what would have happened had you not undone it.

For an export, click the File > Export.  The Safe Limit warning sheet gives you an option to do a Test Run.  Click the Test Run button and no changes will be exported by a similar Sync Log will be created for you.

2.  With Synkmark on only one Mac, and Xmarks shutting down, and no Windows computers involved, you cannot have a Sync Loop.

3.  Regarding Firefox Sync, it works for me.  But unfortunately none of these services have a web interface so it's difficult to tell which Mac's Firefox is not working.  Are you sure that you have only one Firefox Sync account, same one signed in on both Macs?  In both Mac's Firefox' Preferences > Sync, ensure that the Bookmarks checkbox is switched on.  If all that is OK, I would…

• Pause syncing in Synkmark.
• In Firefox on both Macs, delete all bookmarks.
• Sign out of Firefox Sync on both Macs.
• Wait a half hour.
• Resume Syncing and Export in Synkmark – this should repopulate bookmarks into Firefox on your iMac
• Sign in to Firefox Sync on your iMac.
• Wait at least 5 minutes.
• Sign in to Firefox Sync on your MacBook.
• Hope that bookmarks appear in Firefox on your MacBook.
  

Jerry Krinock
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Re: Using 1 Mac as "master"
Reply #1 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 8:23pm
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Hello, camner.

When you switch on iCloud>Safari or Sign In to Chrome, these two services merge the bookmarks on all of your devices.  So, if I understand you correctly, and I think your narrative is clear, what happened when you turned on iCloud>Safari and signed in to Chrome is that all of those old, out-of-sync bookmarks on your MacBook and iOS devices were synced to your iMac.  Synkmark saw the large number of additions and rightfully said Whoa, something is wrong here.

Probably most of the bookmarks from your MacBook are the same bookmarks on your iMac.  So you wonder: What is the big deal?  Well, the very first time you import bookmarks into Synkmark, as you did in December, Synkmark will recognize and filter out duplicates from different browsers.  But after that, Synkmark recognizes bookmarks from different browsers as being the same only if they have the same unique identifier, a number which you cannot see.  This is because duplicates are a thing which some people have, and also because using the unique identifier results in way fewer bugs than trying to rigorously compare the attributes and location of each item.  Sign in to Chrome and iCloud>Safari use these unique identifiers in the same way – actually, Synkmark uses the identifiers which Safari and Chrome have assigned.

Unique identifiers are assigned when bookmarks are imported to a browser.  Because these bookmarks which are on your iMac and your MacBook were imported at different places and times, they have different unique identifiers.  Synkmark therefore sees them as different, which is why all the fuss.

To have avoided, this, you should have removed all bookmarks and folders from Chrome and Safari on your MacBook before switching on Sign in to Chrome and iCloud>Safari.  Then they would have been populated by Sign in to Chrome and iCloud>Safari with bookmarks from your iMac, and Synkmark wouldn't even have noticed.

It looks like you still have the correct bookmarks in Synkmark, and syncing is paused.  So, to fix it is simple.

• Leave Sign in to Chrome and iCloud>Safari ON.
• In Chrome, delete all bookmarks and folders.
• Ditto for Safari.  Don't forget the Reading List.
• Wait 20 minutes or so and verify that Chrome and Safari have no bookmarks or folders, in all of your devices.
• In Synkmark, switch Syncing to Ready (yellow circle), and Export as prompted.
• Quit Synkmark.

After a few minutes, Safari and Chrome on all of your devices should have your bookmarks from Synkmark, syncing is on, and you're back in business.
  

Jerry Krinock
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camner
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Using 1 Mac as "master"
Apr 29th, 2018 at 7:53pm
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Per what I think I understood from your great docs and an email exchange we had in December, I successfully set up Synkmark to sync bookmarks among Safari, Chrome, and Firefox on my main Mac (an iMac). 

Having things working well on the iMac for several months, I decided to turn on the ability to sync with my MacBook and a couple of iDevices.  Per what I think I understand, I did NOT install SynkMark on the MacBook, but instead turned on Safari syncing in iCloud on the iMac and on the MacBook.  I also turned on bookmark syncing in Chrome and Firefox syncing as well.

Firefox on the MacBook had no bookmarks in it, and Safari and Chrome had some bookmarks via a manual export/import process I did OUTSIDE of Synkmark when I first set up the MacBook, so the bookmarks there are out of date.

Within an hour or so of turning on these external syncing agents, I got the dreaded "Too many changes" which then, of course, paused the Synkmark syncing.  I don't understand why there should be many changes at all on the iMac, let alone "too many."

I have NOT resumed SynkMark syncing because I'm concerned about overwriting or adding duplicates on the iMac.

So, a few questions:

1.  Is there a place I can see the proposed list of changes?  After dismissing the dialog box, SynkMark opened up, but I'm not sure where to look for the list of proposed changes?

2.  I don't THINK my setup is creating a "sync loop," but perhaps I don't quite understand the implications of my setup correctly.  Is there something different I should be doing to accomplish what I want?

(FWIW, Firefox sync is not working for me at all.  After 24 hours and multiple manual clicks on the "sync" button within Firefox settings, I'm not getting the bookmarks on the iMac propagated to the MacBook.  I know this isn't a SynkMark issue, but if you have any tips about how to troubleshoot this, I'd be grateful).

Finally, in case it's helpful, I uploaded a Synkmark_Trouble.zip file.  Which leads to a final question...is it easier for you this way (forum post + zip file), or for a given issue would you prefer just a zip file with detail in the place requested?

Thanks for your help!
  
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