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Jerry Krinock
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Re: Bookdog to BookMacster: Safari Use Case
Reply #7 - Jan 30th, 2010 at 12:03am
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scott wrote on Jan 29th, 2010 at 11:22pm:
This seems really, really confusing...So, let me see if I understand "Clean Slate"...

- The Bookmarkshelf remains in whatever state it was in the last time it exported.
- I have deleted some bookmarks in Safari.
- I import from Safari WITHOUT Clean Slate.
- The "deleted" bookmarks are still in the Bookmarkshelf. (So it restores to the exported state as if the bookmarks were never deleted)
- If I then export Clean Slate (also the same WITHOUT Clean Slate) to Safari, the "deleted" bookmarks are restored.
(So, there is a way to make it impossible to delete anything in a wicked feed-back loop)
Yes.  That's why the Clean Slate is on by default.

scott wrote on Jan 29th, 2010 at 11:22pm:
In reverse:  If I delete items in BookMacster, but don't have Clean Slate selected on export, it will leave them in Safari (as if they were not deleted from the Bookmarkshelf)
Yes.

scott wrote on Jan 29th, 2010 at 11:22pm:
Does Clean Slate only apply to "deleted" items, and not, for example, moved bookmarks (one's filed in different folders) or does it leave the bookmark in its original spot AND put a duplicate in the new place too?
Clean Slate only applies to deleting.  If you move a bookmark in Safari, then re-import from Safari with Clean Slate off, the bookmark will be moved in BookMacster and will not create a duplicate.

scott wrote on Jan 29th, 2010 at 11:22pm:
If that description is correct... Wouldn't it be easier (since now a Bookmarkshelf is a persistent file containing data states that BookMacster could save) to allow for some kind of "archiving" of bookmarks in BookMacster (like "checked" items in iTunes).  A sort of "do not sync" flag.
Well, as far as "easier", I can't remember how many months it took me to figure out what that stupid checkbox was for in iTunes.  The one I'm thinking of tells iTunes to "play" or "not play" the track.  By "do not sync", I believe you mean some or all of "Do not Export, Do not Delete, and Ignore any Moves or other attribute Changes when Re-Importing".  Correct?  That's an interesting feature request, but what you would do with it?  Having to set each item individually, I don't see how this would replace "Clean Slate".
  
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Re: Bookdog to BookMacster: Safari Use Case
Reply #6 - Jan 29th, 2010 at 11:22pm
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Jerry Krinock wrote on Jan 24th, 2010 at 3:00am:
Clean Slate on Export is so that, during an Import, bookmarks which you deleted in BookMacster will be deleted in the Safari.  (Clean Slate on Import is the vice-versa.)  I would say that you want both of these ON.


This seems really, really confusing...So, let me see if I understand "Clean Slate"...

- The Bookmarkshelf remains in whatever state it was in the last time it exported.
- I have deleted some bookmarks in Safari.
- I import from Safari WITHOUT Clean Slate.
- The "deleted" bookmarks are still in the Bookmarkshelf. (So it restores to the exported state as if the bookmarks were never deleted)
- If I then export Clean Slate (also the same WITHOUT Clean Slate) to Safari, the "deleted" bookmarks are restored.
(So, there is a way to make it impossible to delete anything in a wicked feed-back loop)

In reverse:
If I delete items in BookMacster, but don't have Clean Slate selected on export, it will leave them in Safari (as if they were not deleted from the Bookmarkshelf)

Does Clean Slate only apply to "deleted" items, and not, for example, moved bookmarks (one's filed in different folders) or does it leave the bookmark in its original spot AND put a duplicate in the new place too?

If that description is correct... Wouldn't it be easier (since now a Bookmarkshelf is a persistent file containing data states that BookMacster could save) to allow for some kind of "archiving" of bookmarks in BookMacster (like "checked" items in iTunes).  A sort of "do not sync" flag.
  
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Re: Bookdog to BookMacster: Safari Use Case
Reply #5 - Jan 25th, 2010 at 7:51am
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We'll consider that; I've added it to the tracker.  Such options, if they could slip by our "this app is already too complicated" police, could also be used for the "Delete All" feature, which has a similar "which one do you keep?" issue.  We'll have to find a hiding place for this control so my grandmother won't see it.


It seems that some of this could be simlified by conditions:

dups in the same collectoin: just toss one
dups in different collections: rules for which collection keeps it

and if you're going fully insane, you could put these sorts of rules in multiple folders so it was sort of a processing pipeline. don't do this, though. the use case resembles using bookmacster for a good game of robo rally.
  
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Re: Bookdog to BookMacster: Safari Use Case
Reply #4 - Jan 24th, 2010 at 11:14pm
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fnj wrote on Jan 24th, 2010 at 7:28am:
On the dup detection, maybe we could have an option for what to do if dups are found? I'm thinking some subset of (a) ask me [same as what it does now] (b) pick the least-nested folder, (c) pick the most-nested folder (d) pick the first order by sort, (e) pick the last order by sort, (f) pick a specified folder. Option (f) gives me an area I can occasionally check for dups it didn't know what to do with.
We'll consider that; I've added it to the tracker.  Such options, if they could slip by our "this app is already too complicated" police, could also be used for the "Delete All" feature, which has a similar "which one do you keep?" issue.  We'll have to find a hiding place for this control so my grandmother won't see it.

fnj wrote on Jan 24th, 2010 at 7:28am:
Similarly, I'd like a way to Mirror-Save on exit *without* it asking me whether I really want to. Mostly I'm looking for ways I don't need to think.
Whew.  You're talking to someone here who personally had to go back in Time Machine and restore his Safari bookmarks a couple times, before that warning was added.  I suppose we could add a "Don't show this again" checkbox.  OK, it's added to our tracker.  In the meantime, note that "Export and Save" is the default button, so you can dismiss it quickly with a pinky finger.  The 'enter' key is your friend.

fnj wrote on Jan 24th, 2010 at 7:28am:
In any case, I re-imported from Bookdog and everything seems to be in order now.
Good job.  For anyone just starting, here's the screencast I promised – http://sheepsystems.com/files/products/bkmx/movies/BookdogToMacsterSafOnly.mov
  
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Re: Bookdog to BookMacster: Safari Use Case
Reply #3 - Jan 24th, 2010 at 7:28am
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Like the predecessor Bookwatchdog, a BookMacster Agent will find dupes but not delete them.  The problem is that it doesn't know which one you want to keep, the new one or the old one.  Like Bookwatchdog, it will launch the main application, BookMacster in this case, show you the dupe and you delete the one you don't want.

To create an Agent, click the Agents tab and then click the "+" button.  The default Agent which is added will sort whenever Safari bookmarks change.  To have it find duplicates too, in the Commands table at the bottom, click "+", set the new command to "Find Duplicates" and drag it up so it appears after "Sort".

HOWEVER, you don't have to set any of the above!  The first time you launch BookMacster, it offers to read your Bookdog preferences and translate all into the Settings of a new Bookmarkshelf.  If you were using Bookwatchdog, it even creates an Agent to do exactly what Bookwatchdog was doing.


On the dup detection, maybe we could have an option for what to do if dups are found? I'm thinking some subset of (a) ask me [same as what it does now] (b) pick the least-nested folder, (c) pick the most-nested folder (d) pick the first order by sort, (e) pick the last order by sort, (f) pick a specified folder. Option (f) gives me an area I can occasionally check for dups it didn't know what to do with.

Similarly, I'd like a way to Mirror-Save on exit *without* it asking me whether I really want to. Mostly I'm looking for ways I don't need to think.

In any case, I re-imported from Bookdog and everything seems to be in order now.
  
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Re: Bookdog to BookMacster: Safari Use Case
Reply #2 - Jan 24th, 2010 at 5:57am
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Sorry, I found a little bug in this Import from Bookdog thing that I want to fix before making the screencast.  Check back tomorrow.
  
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Re: Bookdog to BookMacster: Safari Use Case
Reply #1 - Jan 24th, 2010 at 3:00am
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Thanks for the feedback, fnj.

fnj wrote on Jan 24th, 2010 at 12:39am:
I mostly want a way to keep my Safari bookmarks sorted and de-duped. I *think* the way I do this is set the Bookshelf to mirror-open import from Safari, sort, find dups, and clean-slate export to Safari.
Yes.  I'd point out that checking on Mirror-Open, Sort and Find Dupes are an optional convenience to do things automatically.  You can get the same effect by "manually" clicking in the menu: Import, Sort All, and Find Duplicates whenever you open your Bookmarkshelf.

Clean Slate on Export is so that, during an Import, bookmarks which you deleted in BookMacster will be deleted in the Safari.  (Clean Slate on Import is the vice-versa.)  I would say that you want both of these ON.

fnj wrote on Jan 24th, 2010 at 12:39am:
Then I occasionally open Bookmacster and it will do its thing. In that regard this is similar to Bookdog.
Yes.

fnj wrote on Jan 24th, 2010 at 12:39am:
- is there an easier way to solve my problem?
I'd say you've got it, except...

fnj wrote on Jan 24th, 2010 at 12:39am:
- is there a way to have the agent automatically sort and de-dup so I don't have to open Bookmacster and tell it to do its thing?
Like the predecessor Bookwatchdog, a BookMacster Agent will find dupes but not delete them.  The problem is that it doesn't know which one you want to keep, the new one or the old one.  Like Bookwatchdog, it will launch the main application, BookMacster in this case, show you the dupe and you delete the one you don't want.

To create an Agent, click the Agents tab and then click the "+" button.  The default Agent which is added will sort whenever Safari bookmarks change.  To have it find duplicates too, in the Commands table at the bottom, click "+", set the new command to "Find Duplicates" and drag it up so it appears after "Sort".

HOWEVER, you don't have to set any of the above!  The first time you launch BookMacster, it offers to read your Bookdog preferences and translate all into the Settings of a new Bookmarkshelf.  If you were using Bookwatchdog, it even creates an Agent to do exactly what Bookwatchdog was doing.

If you missed that the first time you launched it (or if you started with a previous version of BookMacster which may have had some -- ahem -- bugs, there is a Re-import from Bookdog menu item in the BookMacster menu which will regurgitate it.

But wait.  I'm going to demo all this in a little screencast which shows how damned easy it is for "Bookdog grads", when you let BookMacster do the work.  Check back to this thread in several hours.

Thanks again for the feedback.
  
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Bookdog to BookMacster: Safari Use Case
Jan 24th, 2010 at 12:39am
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[Finally have some time to test this seriously].

I think I'm getting the hang of this, but I ran into some behavior that makes me think I misunderstood. I re-read the docs and think I now understand, so this post is mostly double-checking my uncertainty.

My situation is I mostly just use Safari. I mostly want a way to keep my Safari bookmarks sorted and de-duped. I *think* the way I do this is set the Bookshelf to mirror-open import from Safari, sort, find dups, and clean-slate export to Safari. Then I occasionally open Bookmacster and it will do its thing. In that regard this is similar to Bookdog.

Questions:

- is there an easier way to solve my problem?

- is there a way to have the agent automatically sort and de-dup so I don't have to open Bookmacster and tell it to do its thing?
« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2010 at 3:01am by Jerry Krinock »  
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